A flying start
A special thanks goes to all the of the people from the Facebook Email Standards Project group who showed their support early and strongly. A large number have blogged or commented about the project launch, and that had a huge impact. We’ll keep that group going as a great way to keep in touch and share ideas.
Posts and feedback around the web
There has been far more launch announcements, discussions and posts than we could possible mention about the Email Standards Project since yesterday, but here are just a few that are worth checking out.
If one part of your market sees a beautifully crafted marketing message and other parts get something that looks like a 3-year-old’s finger painting then your effort and money is being wasted in what might be a crucial sector. It is for reasons like these that you need to be aware of web and email standards - even if you don’t understand them.
Leah Maclean, on Working Solo
I started out hating HTML e-mail, but now I am a believer. I support The Email Standards Project.
Jeffrey Zeldman, on zeldman.com
For me, [The Email Standards Project] means that not only will my job get infinitely easier, but also more enjoyable since I won’t have to build email campaigns like I built websites in 1996: banging my head in frustration on my desk. I can’t wait.
Max Riffner, on maxriffner.com
Today might be the day that email design grew up, left home, and got a room in a shared apartment with the web folk.
The Email Standards Project website just launched.
Mark Brownlow, on Email Marketing Reports
What I feel people need to realize is that the reason HTML email has been so loathed in the past wasn’t because of the form itself, but because of the way the form has been used.
Sameer Vasta, on Squandrous
The obligatory link for a Very Good Thing™
Shaun Inman, on shauninman.com/
That’s just a few out the many, many great posts, and thank you to everybody who took part. If you tried to leave a comment on the blog yesterday, you might notice they have not shown up - our mistake! We had misconfigured something and the comments were unfortunately lost.
Please do leave a comment again if you still wish to. This project is only just beginning, and we have a long road ahead, but we’ve started off in the best possible direction. Keep watching the blog for further updates on what’s happening, how you can help and our future plans.
Useful and good project.
We are supporting it.
http://www.sunipeyk.com/simdi-de-eposta-standartlari/
http://www.sunipeyk.com
“Building a CSS-based newsletter template these days is like wanting to build a concrete house on a swamp hit by an hurricane.
Sure it’s the best choice you could make but eventually you end up using weak wood and plastic just because the foundations would give sooner with concrete than the actual walls will with the hurricane!”
What could possibly be the point of not boosting the market up with an up to date email client? When no other companies beside big companies are being mentioned here (Apple, Microsoft, Google, Yahoo, etc) how can there even be a one product not supporting something as basic as a margin or a background image?
Hurray! Let’s see how fast Google can respond to the fact that GMail is not the top of the class.
Thanks for the link love. I’m pushing the project on my Facebook profile and a few other places as well (as well sending it to one of my clients who currently sends horrendous HTML emails—I’m working on fixing that) and hopefully the ideas will percolate quickly.
So when can I buy a t-shirt? =)
Ya know, this whole “project” smacks of something cobbled up by advertisers and spam houses.
In France too ;)
http://www.billyboylindien.com/blog/web/mail-standards/
Thanks for the support guys, we appreciate that you guys can understand where we are coming from and what we want to do.
@Phredd
Ya know, this whole “project” smacks of something cobbled up by advertisers and spam houses.
Do you really think that spam houses care about sending spam with web standards? Or that the lack of standards is somehow holding them back from sending more spam?
This is about improving support so that legitimate web designers can send permission based email using modern, accessible web design techniques.
Hi there guys,
Interesting project. I work everyday with design & creative agencies and it is unbelievable when you they 90% of them don’t add email stationary as one of their services, but when you phone then they hesitantly say yes....with the exact fears what you guys are mentioning here.
And saying this it is amazing to know that 85% of business communication happens by emails so email stationary is a business critical tool.
The only problem I have notice to far with Outlook 2007 is that it freezes animated gifs but I know that a lot of guys is not happy with the new version.
Whether we like it or not html email is here to stay. So, instead of fighting it we may as well try and aim to standardise it as much as possible. Even though browser clients are by no means perfect there is direction and there’s no better time than now to send email rendering the same way.
Hats off to you ESP. I’ll be following the acid test scores with interest.
I think trying to utilize web standards in email message is the wrong implementation. It always has been. The fact that HTML in the message content is popular doesn’t make it right.
Instead use MIME to attach your well crafted web standards-based HTML page to the message. That way they can view it with their standards compliant browser.
http://andrewwoods.net/blog/2007/12/02/email-standards/
Andrew,
Thanks for your thoughtful feedback. It seems to me that it is a completely arbitrary distinction to make someone open a message in the browser - why make them go through that extra step just because of a philosophical objection?
I see your point that this commits the email client developers to having to keep up to date with web standards, but since they are already supporting HTML (and are not going to drop it) that is what the will have to do anyway.
The Email Standards Project is a pragmatic one - lets work with reality, not with what we think would have been the right decision to make 10 years ago.
Okay. This project won’t convince me that HTML mail is a good thing, but I’ve got two points that you should consider:
1. CSS increases accessibility, you say, and that’s correct. However, providing a usable(!) plain text equivalent to any HTML mail is required(!) for optimal accessibility as well. You should mention that on your site as well. Also, HTML mail critics won’t be that negative about your project anymore if you do.
2. The project name is wrong. You’re not talking about Email standards, you’re talking about the level of CSS adoption in HTML mail.
I have elaborated a bit more on my blog: https://scytale.name/blog/2007/12/email-standards
Delivering the HTML content as an attachment, is hardly an arbitrary distinction. In doing so, you are actually using the email standard. Now that you have attached the html content, each person can use their favorite standards-loving web browser.
The problem with the current situation, is that you want the email client to be another web browser. Email and the Web are two very different platforms. Trying to treat them the same is a mistake. Let each one be great at what is does. Accessibility isn’t an issue with plain text email. Think of attached webpage content as progressive enhancement. All audiences will get the default plain text. For those that want the additional web content, its there along side the message.
As an implementor, think of all the time you’ll save by not having to test your HTML-embedded email.
What we _should_ be focusing is modifying the user expectation. To adopt/steal a line from the Rolling Stones song Gimme Shelter “It’s just a click away"…
@andrew woods
Isn’t that just like a website where all content is in PDF files?
Well, that depends on the implementation. There are a few ways to do it. For simplicity, lets say the full content is in the attached XHTML page, and utilizes CSS. The body of the message is in plain text.
A. The body of the message gives no context, as in:
“Please read the attached file for the details of the offer”.
B. The body of the message gives introductory context. This might be analogous to the introductory paragraph for a news story or RSS feed. “Continue to the full article”. In our case, that’s the attachment.
C. All the text of the attached webpage is also in the body of the message. You might also include a line that says “For an enhanced version, see the attached file”.
The ideal scenario is C., but the B. is also a decent option in that it gives those who are searching their mail for this message some text to search on. So you implemented scenario A. then it would be like hiding the content in PDF - so don’t do it.
@andrew woods:
How can option C be ideal if I always want to see the HTML version, if available? I could argue that the best option would be to have the plain text version attached and start off with the HTML version.
I think the ideal situation is that I can configure my email client in such way that it always shows the the prefered version, if available. Gladly, I can already do so in my current email client, and you probably can in yours.
If I’m correct this project is not promoting HTML email its self, it’s promoting standards/best practices to use if you happen to send HTML emails. Including a plain text version is such best practice I guess, although I can imagine that a standard looks-like-plain-text.css could do the same as well. But untill all email clients support the CSS for such a stylesheet, including plain text versions in HTML email should be promoted.
The plain text version is the email standard.
I’m saying it’s ideal, because can access the information the same information, no hacks are involved, it very clean, and those that want the enhanced experience can get it easily.
Applying best practices for HTML in email is like re-inventing the wheel. Think of all the effort that web designers go through to craft an elegant, cross-browser site. They’re only working with 4 major browsers - Firefox, IE, Safari, and Opera. That’s not including product line differences (IE5.5 vs IE6.0 vs IE7.0) Some don’t always test for all 4. Now, imagine all the additional hacks that need to discovered and implemented across the varying email clients. They won’t get it right the first time. So it’ll be another 10 years, maybe 15 before they do.
What I’ve been talking about is doing something today that is practical right now. It’s pragmatic, simple, effective. Why do want to make things harder on yourself?
@andrew woods:
> The plain text version is the email standard.
Horses were the transportation standard, once.
> Applying best practices for HTML in email is like re-
> inventing the wheel.
Some webstandards will not be suitable for use in email. That’s true. And therefor, I guess, this is not WaSP but ESP, which is good.
> They won’t get it right the first time. So it’ll be
> another 10 years, maybe 15 before they do.”
You’re right that they didn’t get it right the first time. This project is to help them do better next time.
The webstandards movement is doing its thing for quite some time now and still browsers don’t get it right, even the 4 major ones. Is that an argument not to promote standards?
> Why do want to make things harder on yourself?
Harder? Me? You’re the one telling me I should make an extra click to see the layout I want to see.
The same kind of question is coming from front-end developers who try to find excuses for sticking to table based layouts and for not making accessible sites. It’s not a good excuse then as it is not now.
If you read through my chain of posts, you’ll see I’m talking about supporting standards. Web Standards are great, and I make the constant best effort to utilize them. I also think that the effort and time of everyone here would be better spent on enhancing the mobile users web experience. That IMHO is a better issue for the group to engage.
Think about the users of linux/unix environments and the growing mobile user base. Are these audiences being considered?
>Harder? Me? You’re the one telling me I should make an extra click to see the layout I want to see.
@Sander Aarts: Are you telling me that to perform one extra click is harder than spending more than hour testing your designs in multiple email clients? Because that seems to be the case. If you want a setting for your email client, one that said “auto-open html” would be a good one. Then you’re back to zero clicks.
@andrew woods
We all agree that everybody should send a plain text alternative along with their HTML. So if you prefer plain text, you can get it, and you never need to see HTML.
If other people want to see HTML first, they can, and it does not impact on your experience at all.
I don’t see why you want to force other people to have to make another click if they don’t need to?
If you want a setting for your email client, one that said “auto-open html” would be a good one. Then you’re back to zero clicks.
Isn’t that exactly where we are with HTML+plain text right now, except just letting the email client open it in the inbox instead of in a browser?
ah, if that were only the case. I always seem to get the HTML emails, and I’m never given the choice. What happens is my email client doesn’t display images by default, which I prefer because I just want to read the content. So its always it big gap in the middle of the content, or even worse the text is IN the images, and I have to turn them on just to get the content. So this is far from ideal. I think message to the community at large needs to be sent out again that both versions be sent. So while the members on this list seem to know and agree, most dont know. So i want to get the message out.
@andrew woods:
> I also think that the effort and time of everyone here
> would be better spent on enhancing the mobile users web
> experience. That IMHO is a better issue for the group to
> engage.
If we should not engage certain issues just because others are better to engage then I think we’ll all end up promoting one single world wide issue. I’m not sure what that’ll be, but I’m pretty sure it’s not internet related.
This is not about OR, it’s about AND. And by the way, mobile-standards.org is still available for you to register ;-)
> Are you telling me that to perform one extra click is
> harder than spending more than hour testing your designs in
> multiple email clients?
No, I’m saying that as a user I don’t want that extra click and extra application to be necessary to see my emails in the layout I prefer. I’m sure there are other users who think the same.
If HTML emails were consistent, it would be a better experience overall. I never doubted that. I simply wanted to present an alternative solution that implemented web standards. Its important to offer constructive commentary. I never want to be the guy that criticizes something and offers nothing in its’ place.
@Sander Aarts:
>No, I’m saying that as a user I don’t want that extra click and extra application to be necessary to see my emails in the layout I prefer. I’m sure there are other users who think the same.
That’s fair enough. I know there are who think the same. It’s good to want things :) Cheers.
Cheers
100% support from me on this one. I’ll get a blog post up about it as soon as I have time to write something decent.
I’ve already blogged about the importance of this before the ESP site was created, and I’m going to keep on hacking away on this one.
I know a high-end manager at Google’s European branch and will poke him about this and see if I can’t get some info from him or at least passed on.
I’ve also posted on the Gmail Group about this.
http://groups.google.com/group/Gmail-Problem-solving/browse_thread/thread/639fb05caf34f19c#09b758770546da71
That’s awesome Alex, thanks so much for helping get the word out to the Google team, I just added a follow up comment to the Google Groups thread.
I have tried the AcidTest stream, and I have a question/comment.
In an email how are your remote graphic references in the IMG tags supposed to be accessed? There has to be a BASE tag surely? In a browser, the site Url is used to prepend the image file path. But in the AcidTest stream I cannot see any reference to your site, which would be the case of an html message then unable to fetch the graphic.
This is a fantastic project and I certainly support it 100% along with many! Cheers!
I’m not sure the HTML vs. text email argument will ever be resolved, but I do think it’s great that people ARE having discussions about emails standards. Just my two cents…
Fantastic Project! Keep Up!
[Email Standards Project - Working with email client developers and the design community to improve web standards support and accessibility in email.] Some of our team members frequently visit this website and we talk about the topics discussed here. And we intend to keep coming back to learn more. Thanks to all, for all the good work. Cheers, Ontslag.
Great project and looks promising, keep it up guys :)
hi , great post !
Email Standards Project - A friend recently pointed me to email-standards.org, because Internet Mail and its standards are some of my favorite subjects. I was, however, quite surprised when I found out what that web site was all about.
Email Standards Project - A friend recently pointed me to email-standards.org, because Internet Mail and its standards are some of my favorite subjects.
I was, however, quite surprised when I found out what that web site was all about.
I’m not sure the HTML vs. text email argument will ever be resolved, but I do think it’s great that people ARE having discussions about emails standards. Just my two cents
I need to agree with Leah Maclean - I don’t like the idea of web stndards for e-mail, but now (after spending some time at http://www.email-standards.org/) I start to support this idea.
Fantastic Project! Keep Up thanks you
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Well, good luck with your project… if you need more support via facebook, i’ve developed a few applications there. let me know.
> The plain text version is the email standard.
Horses were the transportation standard, once.
> Applying best practices for HTML in email is like re-
> inventing the wheel. http://www.zhqyml.com.cn
Some webstandards will not be suitable for use in email. That’s true. And therefor, I guess, this is not WaSP but ESP, which is good.
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It’s difficult to imagine our life today without email and in particular without HTML emails.. So HTML/CSS is now very important technology that touchs each of us.
HTML emails are now de-facto standard of western business life
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I know a high-end manager at Google’s European branch and will poke him about this and see if I can’t get some info from him or at least passed on.
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This is about improving support so that legitimate web designers can send permission based email using modern, accessible web design techniques.
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he problem with the current situation, is that you want the email client to be another web browser. Email and the Web are two very different platforms. Trying to treat them the same is a mistake. Let each one be great at what is does. Accessibility isn’t an issue with plain text email. Think of attached webpage content as progressive enhancement. All audiences will get the default plain text. For those that want the additional web content, its there along side the message. cheap Louis Vuitton bags
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Composing HTML for an Email - If you’ve ever had the unfortunate task of creating an HTML formatted Email, you’ve probably run into the fact that not every Email client is going to display it the way that you intended it. In order to get your entire readership to view ...
Email Standards Project - A friend recently pointed me to email-standards.org, because Internet Mail and its standards are some of my favorite subjects. I was, however, quite surprised when I found out what that web site was all about.
Email Standards Project - Working with email client developers and the design community to improve web standards support and accessibility in email.
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