Yahoo! drops paragraph spacing
Whereas emails sent to Yahoo! webmail subscribers in the past were appearing fine, recently it seemed like the rendering had changed. Paragraph spacing was now totally removed from many emails.
Diana ran some tests and was able to confirm that the spacing did disappear in both Yahoo! classic and the new version:
This is how paragraphs will now be spaced by default.
Fortunately, this is a simple one to fix. All you need to do is add a margin-bottom of 1em (either inline or in your stylesheet) and the spacing is back.
With the addition of a 1em margin, all is well.
It's unclear at this stage why the change has been made, but it is a timely reminder that you can't always rely on email client default settings - if it is important to your design, it's always best to explicitly apply styles to each element.
Thanks to everyone who reported this to us, and to Diana for doing the testing.
Looks like this problem appears in IE, not FF.
Actually I could replicate it in both Firefox and IE. The screen shots above were both taken in Firefox 2.0.
While this may be a problem for some web designers, the margin issue is prevalent across the board. Paragraph margins vary (albeit slightly) from one browser and email client to the next.
I always override default margins with this:
margin: 0em 0em 1em 0em;Then my paragraphs and lists are consistent all the time. So I’d recommend this route as a default. Moreover, if you only place a 1em margin at the bottom in many clients/browsers you’ll get a 2em margin between paragraphs.
That’s my two cents.
“I always override default margins with this:
margin: 0em 0em 1em 0em;”
Yes, I do the same on many site.
It’s a good way.
Good find, and really quick one :) but the only question that got in my mind is: why would they remove the spacing after all?
is it a matter of data bandwidth or even a new rendering system which still in beta?
after all thank you for sharing this.
I must be missing something. When I try to fix this by adjusting the margin settings, I still don’t see the improvement in IE6 or IE7. Looks good in Firefox, but not IE… Are you guys setting the margin to the tag itself? I tried both:
p {margin:0 0 1em 0}
and
p {margin-bottom:1em}
No luck getting either to play nice with IE looking at Yahoo Mail…
Trying to implement this but it’s not working. We generally avoid using CSS when sending emails as they often corrupt at the other end. Can anyone show me what the full style sheet should look like? Either that or how you would put it into effect ‘inline’.
Thanks!
Ian,
The key is to avoid external stylesheets and put CSS inside the document itself, but in the BODY, not the HEAD.
I wrote some of this up on a post a while back here, which might be helpful (also includes links to other resources for best practices):
http://mattmedia.net/2007/08/23/8-html-email-tips-i-wish-i-knew-sooner/
Thanks Matt, that’s great.
Lots of food for thought on that link and the others mentioned on the article.
I work for quite a small company and have to turn around email designs and send them out en masse (to a subscribed list) within an hour or two. That means most of our emails are 100% image based which, from what you say, seems far from ideal.
We do host a web version that people can view but overall I just wish we had enough time on each project to do the job more thoroughly!
Needless to say, it’s less than ideal to do something 100% images based… but if you’re forced to do that, one way to make it better is to be sure you use ALT tags for all images and provide image sizes so that the layout will remain relatively intact and will provide some information to recipients who have images blocked. It may look terrible, but it least they’ll be able to see some of the language they would otherwise be missing.
Thanks for that Matt. I think we’ll try and incorporate that at the very least as it will only take a minute or two longer to implement.
Thanks for the feedback.
One question re: adding margin spacing - does this then add tons of white space when the email is read in say, gmail? Or does gmail read the < p > tag as only allowing 1em bottom margin?
I’ve been putting everything in tables (so 10 years ago!) and adding padding to the < td > tags. It works, but this seems simpler.
Barbara,
It leaves the spacing as 1em in every email client I tested with. If the styles are stripped out it would just go to the default paragraph spacing, otherwise it’ll be the 1em.
I never though that the guys at Yahoo might have problems with the CSS for their layouts. I am not sure buy I thought they should kick ass in such small details, at least. OR maybe the issue was somewhere else.
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Trying to implement this but it’s not working. We generally avoid using CSS when sending emails as they often corrupt at the other end. Can anyone show me what the full style sheet should look like? Either that or how you would put it into effect ‘inline’.
Thanks!
Basically, you put the CSS in the BODY, not the HEAD.
Here’s an example of one I did last year:
http://mattmedia.net/lab/email/MEB-Template.html
Lots of food for thought on that link and the others mentioned on the article.
I never though that the guys at Yahoo might have problems with the CSS for their layouts. I am not sure buy I thought they should kick ass in such small details, at least. OR maybe the issue was somewhere http://www.njqyml.com.cn else.
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Yes, i got the problem while composing the email The spacing on webmail of yahoo always have some problem. I also checked this on yahoo answer but didn’t get the answer proper that how to fix this.
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Yes, i got the problem while composing the email The spacing on webmail of yahoo always have some problem. I also checked this on yahoo answer but didn’t get the answer proper that how to fix this.
I am not sure buy I thought they should kick ass in such small details, at least. OR maybe the issue was somewhere else. I never though that the guys at Yahoo might have problems with the CSS for their layouts.
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I think my IE has a problem, but firefox is successfuly showing paragraph spech
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I think this article is great, it’s about time they fixed this problem!
There was however one problem, when I used:
p { margin:1em; }
It didn’t work, but:
div p, table p { margin:1em; }
Does!, I can assume it’s because I am specifying paragraphs within specific containers?
Let me know if anybody else is finding this problem?
Thanks for the tips on Yahoo paragraph spacing. I was completely unaware of this.
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I never though that the guys at Yahoo might have problems with the CSS for their layouts. I am not sure buy I thought they should kick ass in such small details, at least. OR maybe the issue was somewhere http://www.fashiontrends.cn else.
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I thought they should kick ass in such small details, at least. OR maybe the issue was it.
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I was completely unaware of this.
It’s unclear at this stage why the change has been made, but it is a timely reminder that you can’t always rely on email client default settings - if it is important to your design, it’s always best to explicitly apply styles to each element.
screengrabs. Stadler and Stefan Kremer who both sent in screengrabs.
Let me know if anybody else is finding this problem?
Had the same issue. p {margin: 1em; } is the fix. Worked fine in IE 7 and FF 3.
Kind of ridiculous that this has to be added to make emails display correctly in yahoo. Placed a big post-it note on my screen to remember for future emails.
Oh never knew my mails were going like that. What is that 1em and how do we do that?
I opened a new yahoo account the other night to send junk mail there. Noticed that the p spacing isn’t an issue in the new version of yahoo mail. you have to use p {margin: 1em; }, for the classic version though.
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but the only question that got in my mind is: why would they remove the spacing after all?
Yahoo might have problems with the CSS for their layouts. I am not sure buy
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Yes,I realized it pretty recently though..!was not able to format my text properly while sending mails..!well thanks for the tip..!my mail will look clear now..!
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Trying to implement this but it’s not working. We generally avoid using CSS when sending emails as they often corrupt at the other end. Can anyone show me what the full style sheet should look like? Either that or how you would put it into effect ‘inline’.
Thanks!
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According to this entry on the Email Standards Project blog, Yahoo has changed how they render messages. Yahoo no longer inserts space between paragraphs, so it may be necessary to include a margin of 1em to give some spacing. “The Email Standards Project is about working with email client developers and the design community to improve web standards support and accessibility in email.” They have a number of useful articles about rendering across platforms including this one about Outlook 2007.
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Trying to implement this but it’s not working. We generally avoid using CSS when sending emails as they often corrupt at the other end. Can anyone show me what the full style sheet should look like? Either that or how you would put it into effect ‘inline’.
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Inject space into long blocks of text with indents.
* When using paragraph indents, don’t use paragraph spacing to break up text.
* With very deep indents, pay careful attention to the length of the last line of preceding paragraph. If it is too short, it creates excess, distracting space.
* Ragged-right alignment usually requires deeper indents.
According to this entry on the Email Standards Project blog, Yahoo has changed how they render messages. Yahoo no longer inserts space between paragraphs, so it may be necessary to include a margin of 1em to give some spacing. “The Email Standards Project is about working with email client developers and the design community to improve web standards support and accessibility in email.” They have a number of useful articles about rendering across platforms including this one about Outlook 2007.
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According to this entry on the Email Standards Project blog, Yahoo has changed how they render messages. Yahoo no longer inserts space between paragraphs, so it may be necessary to include a margin of 1em to give some spacing.
Can anyone show me what the full style sheet should look like?
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If you want to double space between the letters -
Expand or condense the space evenly between all the selected characters
Select the text that you want to change.
On the Home tab, click the Font Dialog Box Launcher, and then click the Character Spacing tab.
In the Spacing box, click Expanded or Condensed, and then specify how much space you want in the By box.
Try 150% and you can always go to 200% if needed.
It’s unclear at this stage why the change has been made, but it is a timely reminder that you can’t always rely on email client default settings - if it is important to your design, it’s always best to explicitly apply styles to each element.
“Just a quick update for those of you concerned about the spacing in HTML emails. Our engineers have sleuthed out the problem, and a fix will be rolling out in the coming weeks. “
With today’s word processors and page layout applications it is possible to precisely control the amount of space between paragraphs. There is no longer a need for the old typewriter style of putting double hard returns to separate paragraphs (in computer terms that would be the equivalent of using the enter key to add space between lines).
Then my paragraphs and lists are consistent all the time. So I’d recommend this route as a default. Moreover, if you only place a 1em margin at the bottom in many clients/browsers you’ll get a 2em margin between paragraphs..
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According to this entry on the Email Standards Project blog, Yahoo has changed how they render messages. Yahoo no longer inserts space between paragraphs, so it may be necessary to include a margin of 1em to give some spacing. “The Email Standards Project is about working with email client developers and the design community to improve web standards support and accessibility in email.” They have a number of useful articles about rendering across platforms including this one about Outlook 2007.
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Actually I could replicate it in both Firefox and IE. The screen shots above were both taken in Firefox 2.0
yeah, its pretty annoying when these spacing are removed. It has its important and its for the ease of the user.
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The only thing I would say is that in certain sections diagrams would be helpful in explaining, and more example exercises to try out would be great
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t’s unclear at this stage why the change has been made, but it is a timely reminder that you can’t always rely on email client default settings
Paragraphs and lists are consistent all the time. So I’d recommend this route as a default. Moreover, if you only place a 1em margin at the bottom in many clients/browsers
Yahoo! drops paragraph spacing… This is really just a plug for the Email Standards Project (ESP) which is a great resource for anyone designing their own.
Is a tiny problem that is very easy to skip. I honestly think is not a big deal.
Yahoo! drops paragraph spacing…
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Yahoo no longer inserts space between paragraphs, so it may be necessary to include a margin of 1em to give some spacing.
it may be necessary to include a margin of 1em to give some spacing.
f you only place a 1em margin at the bottom in many clients/browsers
“I always override default margins with this:
margin: 0em 0em 1em 0em;”
Yes, I do the same on many site.
It’s a good way.
Is a tiny problem that is very easy to skip. I honestly think is not a big deal. thanks..
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The drop-down list is to the extreme left by default. You can now change any paragraph to this new double-spacing style by selecting the new style name from ...
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When I try to fix this by adjusting the margin settings, I still don’t see the improvement in IE6 or IE7. Looks good in Firefox, but not IE… Are you guys setting the margin to the tag itself?
With this new rendering yahoo is doing, it will result in ugly spacings, will it not? Why have they decided to do this...companies stange reasons.
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We do host a web version that people can view but overall I just wish we had enough time on each project to do the job more thoroughly! Thanks Matt, that’s great.
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I have tried using the margin:0 0 1em 0; approach but then I lose paragraph spacing on Lotus Notes 6/7 (putting in an actual measurement for margin appears to cause issues).
Any comments on this would be very useful.
Thanks
Not to worry, have found solution: margin-bottom:1em; works with Lotus